Pokematic Reviews Zack Snyder's Justice League

 If it's not a good game or catholic...who do you call?...why Pokematic "hi."

Like many people, I have been a pretty vocal critic of the DCEU-Snyderverse. I was mixed on Man of Steel, sort-of liked Suicide Squad but it wasn't all that good, wanted to believe with Justice League but was let down by the Snyder taint, and the less I think about Batman Vs Superman the better ("ding ding ding ding ding" "you're letting them kill Martha"). So when everyone was saying "release the Snyder Cut, release the Snyder Cut" of Justice League, all I could think was "what is wrong with you people, the only good things in Justice League were clearly made by Joss Whedon and the bad parts were clearly made by Zack Snyder, I for one don't want another Batman Vs Superman since that is easily one of the worst movies I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot)." I mean, I get that people look to The Richard Donner Cut of Superman 2 as evidence that a director going back to finish his vision of a DC superhero movie and that version being better than the theatrical release, but people overlook the fact that Richard Donner's previous superhero movie (Superman 1) was GOOD, whereas Snyder's previous superhero movie (Batman Vs Superman) was BAD. But then to promote HBO Max Warner Brothers brought Zack back to make his movie for HBO Max as "Zack Snyder's Justice League" and it got glowing reviews, with everyone saying "this is so much better than Joss's cut, we need to bring back the Snyderverse." That kind of peaked my interests, but I wasn't about to go out of my way to watch it (not get a subscription to HBO Max, or find someplace to buy or rent it). Well my local library had it available for rental so since it wasn't "out of my way" (I was already there) I decided to have a look. I'll try my best to not compare this to the Joss cut, but given why it exists and what it wants to be that's going to be a bit unavoidable.

Oh yeah, SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!

This part of the review I'm going to do with 5+ year old memories of Joss Whedon's Justice League and try to review it as it's own thing, and later I'll rewatch Joss's JL and return with a more direct comparison.

So first I want to say that this movie is stupid long, 4 hours and 2 minutes. I had to watch it over 2 days because I fell asleep halfway through (not a commentary on it being boring, I watched it kind of later at night when I was dead tired and it just kept going long past when I would have gone to bed normally). According to wikipedia when this movie did get a very limited theatrical release Zack had to put a 10 minute intermission in the middle. There's no way this movie could have been released in theaters as is. A main reason for this is because of a fundamental problem with how this cinematic universe was planned out, because a fair amount of this additional runtime is given to developing Cyborg, who REALLY should have gotten his own stand alone film for this reason. There's also a lot more "mourning superman" with Lois and Martha, which does sort of work, but at the same time feels like it too should have been it's own movie. Kind-of like how Avengers Infinity War and Avengers End Game are 2 halves of the same story, I think it really could have been split into "Justice League, the Origin of Cyborg and Flash" (because he also got some introduction too) and "Justice League, the Return of Superman." I think there's enough here to make 2 full movies out of this. Compounding the "this could have been broken up" aspect is this movie is literally broken up with title cards. It says "part 1, assembling an army," "part 2, finding hope," "part 6, defeating evil" and what not (these aren't actual subtitles, but it's basically what it is). I've seen movies that do this (Clerks comes to mind), and it works for what Zack is trying to do I guess, but it really just kind of shows "this isn't 1 continuous story, it's multiple linked stories."

Speaking of character introductions, one thing that's really hard to "put in the perspective" is that Aquaman still receives no real development, he's just "there" and we're supposed to accept that he is a superhero. Since this movie technically came out after Aquaman and this movie is "meant for the DCEU fans that are assumed to have seen all the movies," a lot of people have already seen the aquaman stand alone film and know who he is. However, Zack Snyder's Justice League was supposed to release before Aquaman, so we still technically don't know who Aquaman is. There were times when watching this I had to remind myself "aquaman didn't happen yet, we don't know who this guy is." It didn't happen a lot, and "Aquaman sucks so who cares" (even though his movie was the best DCEU movie), but I think it was still worth noting.

OK, enough with the "bad aspects" for a little while, what about the "good aspects." Well as I said, Cyborg gets development. In this movie we learn about his powers and what he is capable of, along with how he got them (I want to say in the original Cyborg was about as developed as Aquaman with "he shows up and does some things, but that's kind of it"). This definitely works and makes me interested in his arc, and only further explains why I want him to have his own movie or at least have a JL movie focused just on his arc. From what I know with Teen Titans, he is a very interesting character with the ability to control technology, which happens here. Flash also gets an additional scene or 2 of development, but he's still very much a "who are you" kind of guy.

Next, there's more "villain motivation" if you will. In both films the Mother Cubes are a big deal and the McGuffin of the film, but instead of Stepenwolf wanting to get them together for...reasons not very clear, it's to bring Darkside to Earth so they can concur it (oh yeah, there's another villain, one more powerful to give reason for possible sequels). The cubes are also awakened by Superman's death in the opening, and it works really well to give a reason why now of all times they are awaking and why the different worlds are brought together (Amazons, Antlantians, and Cyborg's dad who is researching a cube discovered by the Nazis). There definitely are some real stakes this time.

Speaking of Stepenwolf and Darkside, it does add a little bit of "future stakes" as well. I remember when watching Joss's JL thinking "so on the 5th movie they're giving us their most powerful being in the universe, where is this going to go from here," because there was no "Darkside is more powerful than me" aspect. This actually had more room to breath.

There are also a lot of other "directors cut" additions and changes that are felt but not obvious (like there's some dialog differences that seem minor but when put side by side they change the way it feels type of things, and I'm probably going to get into those later). Main note is the rating change. While Joss's JL is rated PG-13, Zack's JL is rated R. I would put it in the "soft R category" though, it's mainly because we have 3 uses of f*** and Stepenwolf getting visibly decapitated with what seems like blood on Wonder Woman's sword. I don't think it adds much, it's not like how in Logan the violence and swearing was used to show how far Logan has fallen, this just kind of feels like Zack wants to be crude and say "this is a serious story." The other "felt but not obvious" aspect I can identify is that things feel "more feats of wit than strength." Like, this is mostly felt in the 2 major fight scenes, after Superman is resurected and when everyone is fighting Stepenwolf. In the return of Superman fight, everyone is really slugging it out with Superman in Joss's JL because Superman is confused as to where he is and what's going on, and only after Superman says "you won't let me live, you won't let me die, tell me, do you bleed, you will" to Batman and some other big fighting does Superman come to his senses and joins them. In Zack's JL, it's more that Superman is just inspecting them and Cyborg's auto defense is triggered and Superman is now fighting defensively and is creaming everyone. It's only when Lois comes in does he immediately stop goes with her to enjoy life. (Also, with how it was directed I thought "you won't let me live, you won't let me die" was a Zack line, but apparently is was Joss's line). Then when it comes to the Steppenwolf fight, there isn't nearly as much fighting as I remember in Joss's JL, and again the actions feel more "planned out with an expected cause and effect" instead of "oh no, think on my feet and fight it out." I'm not saying either of these don't work, because they do work, but they're definitely different.

Here's a very noticeable difference that is either a good or bad thing depending on your perspective, this movie is very serious and takes itself very seriously. Joss's JL had a lot of jokes and comic relief, especially with the Flash and sometimes Batman (my favorite line in the entire movie is after the Superman fight when Batman said "yep, something is definitely bleeding"), and while many people disliked that I thought it worked mostly well to tell a story that isn't all gloom and doom and remind us that these are heroes with hope and will. Zack's JL doesn't really have any of that (Flash has some minor moments, but it's not much). Again, this depends on your wishes, but it's probably the most obvious difference.

Another very noticeable difference is the epilog and 4 different endings. Of course after Stepenwolf fight there was a superhero pose of "we won," but then there were the epilogs and teasers. One of the endings was the post credit scene in Joss's JL with Lex Joker hiring Slade, but with the addition of him breaking out of Arkam. Now this scene alone almost ruined my experience with Joss's JL because I despise Jessie Eisenberg as Lex Luthor (he's playing like a Joker character, and he is probably more than half of the reason I hate Batman Vs Superman). I get that we are "stuck with him," but he just doesn't work for me. The scene is basically the same from what I remember (except for the prison break thing). Now for the unique endings. In general we see what happened to everyone; cyborg learns about his dad's pride in him and he feels at ease, Flash gets a job in criminal justice to try to eventually get his dad out of prison, Superman and Lois move into his childhood home after Bruce Wayne buys the bank that foreclosed on the farm, Batman starts setting up the Hall of Justice, and something happens with Wonder Woman and Aquaman. It's a decent epilog and I kind of wonder how much of "the original vision" it was. I'm not saying it was reshot (supposedly only 5 or so minutes of additional footage was filmed for this movie), but this was very "book end, shut the door because there is no more," and there were definitely supposed to be more movies. I just wonder if Zack did some changes to his original vision because he knew "this was it, there won't be any more Snyderverse films so tie everything up." Then there's also a scene where batman is dreaming the Justice League has to team up with Joker to defeat Superman, and it's mostly just a back and forth between Batfleck and Joker Leto (using these names to point out that it's Ben Afleck's Batman and Jarred Leto's Joker). While this was happening all I could really think was "Jarred is proving himself as the Joker even if it feels like he's doing a Ledger impression most of the time, but what does this have to do with anything." Ultimately it was to tease a Martian Manhunter film or something like that, but all it really felt like was Leto getting a second chance at Joker since he was wasted in Suicide Squad. Then absent is the foot race between Superman and Flash. I get why, it was one of those "obviously Joss" things, and was just meant to be a fun follow-up on the whole "Superman was able to fight Flash at Flash speeds in the Superman fight," but that and the Batman-Superman interactions of the Superman fight were the most memorable things of Joss's JL and it was sad to see it not included.

So here's the question, is this movie great like everyone else seems to say it is? I'm going to say no. It's definitely competent and shows that Snyder isn't a complete hack, and as I said if he was allowed to split it into 2 movies (because I'm sure part of the reason this was so rushed was because Marvel already had like 2 Avengers movies out and WB wanted to get there) and Zack had the desire to (because maybe he wanted a 4 hour movie), this has the makings of a great Cyborg origin story and return of Superman story, joined by stopping the threat of Steppenwolf. It's also given the time to breath and tell the story it wants to tell, which I can't exactly say the same for Joss's JL. However, at times it does feel tedious, and it has more Lex Joker than Joss's cut (he's seen in the opening, and that's a deduction in my books), and it is stupid long. This is at best 6/10, I don't understand why everyone is saying "8/10, 9/10, best DCEU movie, bring back the Snyderverse." I think that a lot of the praise it gets is because it's better than Joss's cut (which will be the comparison I'll verify next), and they wanted it and got it. If this came out when it was supposed to I think it would have been the 6/10 that I give it.  It's not bad, it's not the worst thing that came out of the DCEU, but it's far from the best like so many people say it is. But that's just my "watch it on it's own, largely judge on it's own merit" viewing. 

OK, onto my "rewatch original and compare," and I'll be writing these as they happen.

First off, I like the opening scene better in Joss's cut. I know "CGI lip is cringe" is showcased in this cell phone video, but what I love about it is it reminds us of WHY we should root for superman. Sure, we didn't see him save the day, but we saw him giving hope to the children and why it's so bad that he's gone (I want to say BVS almost made him the bad guy). Point to Joss.

Next I need to do the comparison of "precipitating events." In Zack's cut the opening credits is Superman's death and how that activates the mother cubes in all the civilizations (Amazon, Atlantis, and Human), whereas in Joss's cut Batman is trying to find a scout by using a thug as bate and the scout blows up and leaves a clue to the mother cubes, and apparently this is something Batman has been tracking. The opening credits is then spent mourning Superman and showing how the city has fallen without him. I'm torn on this. On the one hand, Zack does a great job of explaining what's going on with the mother cubes and why we should care (all silently), but from a "visual expediency" aspect, I like Joss (we see Batman doing Batman things, and we're reminded of Superman without having too much), and while I feel like there is something missing with Joss's batman detective work (like there's a movie we're missing), this teased at "the batman" sort-of and was what that movie was (and it was great for it). I think I need to give Zack the point on this one, but it was close.

Next I need to talk about Wonder Woman and Aquaman's introductions. First, they're flipped (because Zack opens with "going to Aquaman"), and there's something there that is kind of important. In Zack's cut the movie opens with "going to Aquaman" to recruit him (I think), and there was a lot more room to talk (Joss was "I'm looking for Aquaman, are you him, what are the cubes, come join me," whereas Zack's was "there are legends of a guardian, can you take me to him, song and dance of wits in a more drawn out way). Joss's cut is definitely faster and gets to the point quicker, and kind of feels like something is missing (because there is). It does have the joke about "talking to fish," which is funny. If Joss would have given it a little more room to breath I would have to give the point to him, but I have to give too much breathing room the point. Now for Wonder Woman. Her introduction happening before Aquaman's is necessary for Joss I'd say, because we kind of need the "who is defending the people" element that wasn't necessary in Zack's. The scene is shorter with less fighting, which happened for PG13 I think (Zack's is part of the reason his cut is rated R), but aside from less action nothing is really lost I think.

Now for a good scene with Bruce and Alfred. After Aquaman Joss's cut has a scene where we have Bruce trying to figure out what the cubes are and who he can recruit to his team, with some great banter between him and Alfred. This scene is all Joss, and makes the cube mystery work. While in Zack's we kind of knew what the cubes were from the opening scene, but the characters didn't and this is them trying to figure it out. Zack also just develops everyone but Batman, whereas this gives Batman some much needed development (BVS he was kind of the bad guy). Also, the scene is quick (like 2 minutes), and manages to say a lot (unlike Zack and his scenes). Point to Joss.

Now for Flash's introduction. Zack starts with Barry applying for a dog walking job and has a little bit of comedy before introducing the conflict with his dad. Joss forgoes the dog walking job and goes right to the prison conflict with the dad, but introduces it with a literal blink and you'll miss it joke (for like 1 or 2 frames when Barry is confronting another visitor his hand is center screen, and that's when he draws all over the other guy's face). Then with the conversation with his dad most all the same information is conveyed except more condensed, and while it was nice to see the more "heavy hearted interaction of Barry and his dad," Joss just got to the point faster. This one was close, but point to Joss.

Now for Cyborg's introduction. Joss got to it after Flash, and Zack did superman mourning before doing Cyborg. Almost on the merit of "I don't want superman mourning, this isn't really his story" I would give Joss the point, but unfortunately Zack did a much better job at introducing and developing Cyborg, so point has to go to Zack.

Now we have the mother box awakening. Since cyborg was just introduced in Joss's cut it's hinted at the lab here before the Amazon mother cube. In both cuts we're kind of "introduced" to the Amazon's cube being awoken, but Zack's has the benefit of having the "it was awoken by superman's death" aspect, whereas Joss's is just "this thing that was never established as dormant is now awoken." Same kind of goes for Stepenwolf (Zack's had some more introduction, but not loads more). The Amazon escape is also different (I want to say Zack's has more destruction and death), but it doesn't really matter. It seems like the obvious choice is Zack's, but again it's also not as long. Right now I'm about 30 minutes into Joss's cut whereas Zack's was almost an hour at this point. Point still goes to Zack but not by a super wide margin.

Now for some Lois and Martha interactions. Joss has a scene right now where Lois and Martha are catching up (Martha was foreclosed, Lois is doing puff pieces) and working through their grief, whereas Zack has many scenes of them by themselves in their grief as we see the conversation play out. This is some personal preference, but I have to give this one to Joss. It's a movie called "Justice League," I want "Justice League." I get that Superman's death is a big deal and you can't really have half a Superman movie without Superman, but Zack's cut was very Superman and his family heavy, and I didn't really like that. It was very competently made, but it was just too much. Here we get all of that in just the right dose for my tastes. Then here's another thing, Zack's scenes were very washed out, whereas Joss's scene was well saturated. Instead of being super dower about Superman's death, this is them working through it and coming back with hope for the future, and I really liked that. 2 points to Joss.

Now we're at the backstory of Stepenwolf and the mother cubes, with Diana filling Bruce in on the backstory. I know in Zack's cut there was something about Diana going into a cave to learn all of this, but I think both cuts have Diana giving the backstory. I want to say that Joss gives more story to Diana and the question of "how does she know this" is kind of there, but I chalk it up to Amazon folklore. Because Zack's explanation left such little of an impression on me I'm giving this one to Joss.

There's also a sub-plot about Cyborg identifying who batman really is through his powers and seeking him out, which I don't remember from Zack's cut (and I say "don't remember" because if it left that little of an impression he didn't do it right). Diana makes first contact in Joss's cut, and I think she also did in Zack's, but how it's set-up works here. Cyborg's backstory was definitely handled better in Zack's cut, but this sub-plot definitely works. Point to Joss.

Flash meets Batman is pretty much exactly the same in both cuts. There are some more jokes in Joss's cut, and while I would give this a point, it's just not worth it. This is a draw.

At this point in Joss's cut we see Aquaman in action saving a fisherman with the ultimate introduction of the Antlantian cube and Stepenwolf stealing it. This was earlier in Zack's I think, going for a "develop Aquaman before developing the cube" thing (there was a scene with Willem Dafoe) and the scenes were separated, but Joss made it work. I still have to give Zack the point with the pacing.

Now for something completely Joss, the Russian family in Stepenwolf's holdout. Joss just kind of has Stepenwolf in a nuclear reactor bringing the cubes together whereas Zack has him building his holdout from a nuclear reactor, and that is kind of important to "he is creating a thing, it just doesn't happen." However, him making his holdout in an inhabited town instead of a ghost town adds danger to his villain. This one is also a draw.

Now we're at the joining of the team with Commissioner Gordon. I want to say that there are some differences with Cyborg's dad being kidnapped, and Zack had a thing with Nazi's somewhere with this, and the first confrontation with Stepenwolf, but I can't really think of it. Whatever additional action and such there is in Zack's cut is counterbalanced by the levity and faster pace of Joss's cut. I don't remember Aquaman joining in on fight in Zack's cut while this was in Joss's cut, and this seems slightly less forgettable, so half a point to Joss.

OK, now we're at the team at the batcave. We get Cyborg's backstory along with "the cube was awoken the day superman died," so Joss wasn't completely forgotten. The conversation between bringing superman back to life is kind of the same, I think, but seems a little more "who REALLY are you Batman and Diana." There's also more color saturation which is good. There's also some good "what happens if we bring him back, is it worth it," and I don't remember that in the Zack cut. Zack was kind of "do we need Superman" but Joss is "is it safe to bring him back," there's also a good scene where Bruce and Alfred are talking about why Superman is such a necessity. Point to Joss.

Now for exhuming superman and getting his body to the ship. Cyborg and Flash have some good banter about how they got their powers and how they are both "the accidents." I don't remember this from Zack's, and it worked really well. I also don't know if this for sure wasn't in Zack's cut, but in Joss's cut Clark is buried with a photo of his dad. If nothing else, there's more saturation which makes it a little better. Flash being able to charge the mother cube to resurrect Superman is explained a little more in Zack's cut, but I'll take the other aspects over that. Point to Joss.

OK, now for the resurrection of Superman, the big fight between Superman and the rest of the league. In both cuts he starts fighting because Cyborg's suit mistake's him for a threat, and he is confused over what is happening, but Joss has Flash saying "it's a Pet Semetary thing," which is a bonus. Both have the great "superman is fast enough to see flash" shot, which is great, and I want to say there's some more fighting between Superman and Flash. One thing that isn't in Zack's cut is Batman fighting Superman, and Superman saying "you won't let me live, you won't let me die, do you bleed?" Both stop because Lois shows up to the scene, but in Zack's it's implied she just "shows up because this is his memorial" whereas here it's because Batman called her in as "the big guns." Plus, there's the line of "yep, something is definitely bleeding" in Joss's cut, which is great, and like 1 of 2 things I remembered from my other viewing. Oh, and when Clark flies off with Lois and goes to the family farm, it's just "we're at the farm" not "we're playing house as well." 2 points to Joss.

Now for regrouping. I don't remember this from Zack's cut, but there was probably something. It has another "Aquaman talks to fish" joke, so there's that. The conversation between Bruce and Diana is welcomed. In Zack's cut we would be getting Superman focus, but this is some good development between Batman and Wonder Woman, discussing the challenges of being a leader and what they desire. This was good, point to Joss.

Next there is a shot that is Superman and Lois on the farm, with some discussion about coming back. What I like is it's short. Lois and Clark don't have a lot of time together, with some flirtation. Clark is also reunited with Martha. A lot of this was in Zack's cut, but it's not overbearing and doesn't overstay it's welcome. There's also more color saturation (I think) so it feels happier like a good reunion. Point to Joss.

Now it's the flight over to Stepenwolf's base. I remember the scene playing out differently in Zack's cut, but I don't remember what specifically. I think they talked on the launching platform more. In Joss's cut it's a monolog by Aquaman, and I know this was a Joss addition because it's kind of funny and is set-up by the lasso of truth. Both are probably competent enough, but I like the humor so half a point to Joss.

Now for the big climactic fight with Stepenwolf, first the fight between the team and the bug goons. Honestly, they're both competent. There are some different battle shots, Joss has some more team fighting while Zack has more solo fighting. I'm partial to the team fighting, but they're both good. This one is a tie.

One thing that's absent from Joss's cut is Clark's return to Superman, where he's going to his cave of solitude and donning the suit again. As much as I want this to be "not a superman movie," that really did add to the movie. In Joss's cut he just kind of "comes back." Point to Zack.

Now for the Superman and Flash saving the civilians, a sub-plot added to Joss's cut. I like the addition because it shows them doing hero work and showing the stakes. Sure, WE know it would be bad if Stepenwolf destroyed the world because we live on the worlf, but we don't have any stakes of "normal people dying" which was kind of the entire reason batman and superman were fighting in BVS (superman saved the day but destroyed the city killing hundreds if not thousands). There's also some friendly rivalry between Superman and Flash where Flash was just going to save the family in the truck running really fast and Superman catches up and saves a whole apartment building. I really like this interaction and development. Point to Joss.

Now for the big climactic fight between the Justice League and Stepenwolf. Frankly Zack did it better. Sure, Joss had some more team battles, but Zack really had everyone square off with Stepenwolf and lose until OP Superman came in and really leveled the playing field. Then there's the actual defeat of Stepenwolf. In Joss's cut he gets afraid after the cubes are separated and then goes out like a bitch after his bug goons start swarming him and a teleporting beam takes him away. In Zack's cut a very strategic team-up happens and Wonder Woman decapitates him after Cyborg reopens the portal from the cube or something. There was REAL weight behind the fight in Zack's cut whereas Joss seemed to just want to get it over with. I have to give 2 points to Zack, because climactic final battle is kind of a big deal.

There's also the separation of the cubes. This one also has to go to Zack. In Joss's cut Cyborg is able to rather easily start the separation and just have Superman help him pull them apart. There's some great bonding levity after separating them between Superman and Cyborg, but Zack had real stakes. Throughout the fight we would cut to cyborg struggling to understand the cube, and then it ended up being too late and Flash had to go faster than light to turn back time and make it work after he'd been wounded and struggles to move. I'll have to give Zack another 2 points for this, because this is kind of an important part of the movie.

Now for the endings. It's pretty even. Zack has like 30 minutes of epilog going into details of where everyone ended up, and there's a scene where Bruce has a nightmare with Jarred Leto Joker. Joss has a lot of the same things (Bruce buying the bank to give Clark the house, Barry getting the job, Bruce buying a building for the hall of justice) but has a voice over of Lois writing a story and doesn't go into too much detail of Cyborg, Lois, and Diana (though she is shown fighting crime). Here it's just like 10 minutes. There's also Flash and Superman having a foot race to the pacific coast, which is great. Both have the same post credits with Luthor and Slade (though Zack's is a little longer, which is a determent because Jessie is a terrible Lex Luthor). I'm just going to have to give this one a tie.

Before I tally everything up, here are 2 points that go to Zack that didn't really line up in the comparison. First, Stepenwolf isn't "the ultimate villain," he's actually working for Darkside and it adds a lot more stakes. I don't know how it would have really worked in Joss's cut, but he could have done it I think. Then there's the sound track. I don't know what to really say, but Zack has a better sound track. There's also the inclusion of Martian Man Hunter, which is a good "room for sequels and world building," but I don't think it's enough for a point. 2 points for Zack.

I'm also not sure how much to REALLY give this, but I also have to give Zack a point for the visual effects. This is more than just "CGI lip," there were also some scenes with the Amazons and Aquaman where the background looked REALLY flat and obvious green screen (and if it wasn't then the cinematography was really bad because it looked super fake). I don't know if this is just "WB was getting impatient and running out of money" for Joss's cut, and Zack basically got a movie budget to do all the post production to finish his cut (I read 70 million on Wikipedia), but this has to go to Zack.

For those playing along at home, it's 15.5 to Joss and 13 to Zack. It's very close, but I guess that means Joss is the winner here, right? Well no. Then if Joss isn't the winner then that must mean Zack is the winner. Again no. Neither of these movies are exceptionally great. There are things I really like about Joss's version and there are things I don't like. There are things I really like about Zack's version and there are things that I don't like. Zack's movie is in a lot of ways a more technically competent movie, but then it's often times more of "a Superman movie" than "a Justice League movie." Joss's movie is more of "a Justice League movie" and has a lot more of that team building, but misses the mark on being "a technically competent movie" (a lot was probably Warner Brother's fault pushing for a 120 minute movie and having to squeeze what is probably a 3-4 hour story into 2 hours). The best version of Justice League is the fan edit that lives in my brain. I recommend watching these back to back and getting both movies in your head, because I think that together these make 1 really good super hero movie. Well this has been Pokematic, signing off, and bu-bye.